What makes a good song?

[imjustaguy]

Good looks or personality?

[Benj]

Good looks or personality?

How about a good music or lyrics?

Benj

[Nate_Derringer]

Good compsition helps too. But if your talking about overall i'd say a good fan base, without one of those, even a good song isn't recognizd as one.

[imjustaguy]

Benj,
    You say tomato I say tomato.

[Doraemon]

It depends on the purpose of the song, but generally I look foe lyrics and musical competance. Or if those aren't present, it should be on purpose for a joke.

[buckshotbinladen]

For the most part I look at music theory. How far has the artist gone to stretch what the rest of the market is doing at the time. I go on to other things as well. Production values is a biggie.

Although Marilyn Manson's new disc isn't particularly interesting musically (it does have some nice throwbacks to swing and big band... but that's not enough to constitute it as a really original piece of work) the production values of the disc are just amazing. Tim Skold is a recording genius.

As for song-writing, I really like what Front 242 does with music theory elements... as well as Dismantled.

[imjustaguy]

What music theories do you latch onto buckshot?

[Over13]

Good compsition helps too. But if your talking about overall i'd say a good fan base, without one of those, even a good song isn't recognizd as one.

The Incredible Moses Leroy's latest album was incredible.  And they're no where near as popular as crap bands like...Blink 182, or "insert name of crappy band from early '00s that is trying hard to sound like Tool in order to sell albums".

[Doraemon]

Although Marilyn Manson's new disc isn't particularly interesting musically (it does have some nice throwbacks to swing and big band... but that's not enough to constitute it as a really original piece of work) the production values of the disc are just amazing. Tim Skold is a recording genius.

So, do you buy CDs of music you don't particularly like as long as it's well produced?  :?  I've heard a lot of people say that Radiohead's Hail to the Theif is a mess as far as production is concerned. Personally I don't see anything wrong apart from the fact a lot of the songs are sub-standard for the band and the album sequencing is questionable, but that I'm not a technical music person.

[buckshotbinladen]

I bought the Manson CD becauseI really liked Holy Wood, and I've had brief contact in the past with the guy who produced/played bass on the album. I spend a lot of time mastering and producing music, so I have to have influences in that realm.

As for the music theory inquiry... I study the chords, the scales... everything of the such. Classic music theory... so much music just uses music theory to suh a boring extent. Never messing with transitions from 7ths to 9ths or any other variation from a triad chord formation.

I can't speak for Radiohead's music or production. I was really turned off by "Creep" and the rest of their stuff I've heard has come off as thoughtless "let's impress the pseudointellectuals" type stuff.

And yeah. When I heard Earshot I, at first, thought that A Perfect Circle had just released a new song and it really sucked. People need to stop trying to sound like Tool... now. They're such an original sound and all the musicians sound very distinct and are all very talented... no band is comperable as far as metal is concerned... at least in my book.

[imjustaguy]

I think you think way too much of Tool.  Tool has some of the most repetitive songs in modern rock.  The songs lack melody many times.  The lyrics are somewhat interesting, but self important.  The image and cold anger is the only thing people seem to relate with in the music, not the fact that the music itself is so outstanding.  The only redeeming quality about Tool is the fact that they have interesting claymation videos.  Or maybe I'm thinking of Clay Aiken...

[Doraemon]

I was really turned off by "Creep" and the rest of their stuff I've heard has come off as thoughtless "let's impress the pseudointellectuals" type stuff.

Well, I'm impressed...no,wait...can you come back to me?  :?

[buckshotbinladen]

The only moments Tool shys away from melody is when it's focusing more on percussive elements... They do have a really fucking good drummer. Not many bands have drummers that can hold sold out conferences about drumming technique in large venues.

The music isn't that repetitive if you look beyond the basic sound. They do a lot of really crazy stuff, switching the dominant rhythmic instrument from bass to guitar in between verses and often making the bass and guitar interact completely differently in different choruses.

Tool definitely isn't for the impatient though.

I don't think Tool is the best band ever, note my "as far as metal is concerned". Most metal really fucking sucks.

I also wouldn't say most people like Tool because of the "cold angry" look at things... I mean... the line, "Fuck L. Ron Hubbard and fuck all his clones." The band has a lot of humor in them... There are far more moments of fragility in the music than there is anger. Just because they use distorted guitars doesn't mean the music is angry. It's been a long time since I've heard any christian rock that didn't seem to get it's riffing from reject Korn tracks.

Can you point out any bands within the same level of success that are less repetitive than Tool?

[imjustaguy]

Nope, can't gain more success if you are so repetitive anyway.  That's why Maynard is in A Perfect Circle.

[buckshotbinladen]

Most people dub Tool as repetitive because of the fact that one of their singles had like a 2 minute introduction. Which I guess really pisses off ADD pop-culture, but whatever. As for A Perfect Circle... that's just miserable.